how much horsepower can a honda civic cvt handle

Customer service at my dealership is awesome as well!! I LOVE this car and feel safe, has moon roof, nice stereo, extra features. So would you ever want a lower horsepower number? I hope he can find my son the perfect truck. Much of the Civic sedan and hatchback lineup is powered by a 1.5-liter turbo-4 making 180 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque, while base Sport versions get a 2.0-liter inline-4 making 158 hp and 138 lb-ft. He sat down with me, human to human, and connected with me on a personal level while trying to get me into the car of my dreams. Why are lame horses shot rather than treated? Ride quality is comfortable with the suspension keeping taking the edge of small to medium bumps and potholes." --, "The simplicity of the Civic is palpable, and it has a wonderfully effortless driving feel. Also they put on 4 new tires. To figure out what horsepower actually meant, let's remember that power is defined as the amount of energy transferred (a.k.a. WE ARE EXTREMELY PLEASED! Only negative comment I have is they made minimal effort in helping find someone to transport the car to me, otherwise it was a smooth transaction. If additional add-ons can increase that output, then you're taking risks. --, "From a handling standpoint, it's not the tightest and most athletic vehicle in the class, but it's up there. Additionally, Hondata has gotten rid of the 1.5 second post-shift programmed turbo lag. We didn't care, but he said, "No, you leave here with everything right!" He totally went above and beyond and as someone that deals with customer service on a day to day basis, he totally exceeded expectations today! Great customer service and details everything out for you. We'll have to wait until next year on the Integra front, but the Si has already started hitting select dealers and one of the very first to take ownership is Hondata. Faizan Elahi Mar 17, . The transmission may also have some words. Hondata infamously took a stock Civic with a factory CVT and used their +6 PSI flash tune to add +25 HP and +35 lb-ft to the wheels, raced that Civic for over six hours, and did a complete diagnosis of the CVT. I have gone a few dealerships in looking for a car these past 4 months and Jones Honda Used car was just GREAT to deal with. The manual transmission is a joy to shift. Even the brakes are outstanding, providing excellent bite and progressive stopping strength without being the slightest bit grabby." Then I know the vehicle maintenance will be top notch too! Zero issues on the Coupe. How about a lot more? The transmission will also want to have some words with you. The suspension comfortably soaks up most bumps and dips in the road, and the brakes provide reassuring stopping power. As noted by Hondata's Doug MacMillan, part of that can be credited to the new Si's Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) on the exhaust cam and the use of a twin scroll turbocharger. Have you got a Big Question you'd like us to answer? The 1.5t turbo CVT is more performance oriented then the regular 2.0 CVT and testing has shown the limit for the transmission to be around 240 horsepower and 240 torque. He made every part of the process easy to understand and made sure I would be able to drive off with the car I wanted. It was a great experience, the place great with a lot of options and the employees are exceptional. Thank you very much for the good service. A CVT cooler will help some and prolong the life of the CVT, but you don't have anything to beef up the internals and so hit that ~260 wall. Thank you. I think that it is designed/programmed for efficiency. He was helpful in getting us the best deal, with the best interest rate. The Type R starts around . No cars but Nancy found me what we were looking for. November 20, 2013 12:00 AM. Best buying experience I ever had, and a great price. There aren't a lot of people who tune these engines for more horsepower. Data taken from the 1925 Iowa State Fair indicated that one horse could reach nearly 15 horsepower, though that's not sustainable. So far .this last one is treating me great. I think that replacing or rebuilding that transmission is going to cost you way more than you are paying for your Borla exhaust, intake, and intercooler. They say the Civic has a comfortable ride and poised handling, adding that the sport-oriented Civic Si is the most fun-to-drive model in the lineup. im getting an 07 honda civic ex in april and was hoping to put a turbo on it but i dont wanna pop the engine or eff up the transmission. Rated at 200 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque, the 2022 Si is down 5 hp compared to its older brother and represents the first time that Honda has pulled back on peak horsepower in the Si's 35-plus year history. You also agree to our Privacy Notice. We were offered beverages as soon as we walked him. . I heard about FAULKNER GMC through a friend. Excellent experience from start to finish! 2022 Toyota Highlander & 2021 Honda Passport EXL, Based on each of the companys websites, the borla exhaust will give me around 12hp the k&n intake will give about 15 the prl Motorsport intercooler will not give me anything the ktuner for the 1.5 will give around 55whp so I will be around 274 hp. Why do blackbirds always dive in front of my car? The best we saw surpassed 425 whp. That said, the 2013-17 CVT Accords had about 185hp the 2018-20s have about ten more hp. A+++++, The General Manager and team went above and beyond. Disc CD player is absent. go through a rigorous multi-point inspection. Who knew. I will look for you in my further endeavors with Piazza Honda ( hopefully real soon ). That's a risk you have to evaluate for yourself. By entering your details, you are agreeing to our terms and conditions and privacy policy. Contact the dealership with I think i found what he was talking about. --, "Want an inexpensive, fuel-sipping commuter? Most say the steering is well-weighted, though a few critics mention that the steering is light and doesnt offer much road feel. At our test track it accelerated from 0 to 60 mph in 7.9 seconds. Listen to some of the brightest names in science and technology talk about the ideas and breakthroughs shaping our world. Content on 8thcivic.com is generated by its users. My salesman Kirk was very knowledgeable about the particular vehicle that i was interested in. One horsepower refers to how much work a horse can put in for an average workday. 1.5 has no headroom for mods. In a horse, it might make for a more pleasant ride. 180 Horsepower; 6000 Horsepower RPM; 177 Torque; 1700 Torque RPM; 1.5 Engine Displacement . 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By logging into your account, you agree to our. and any applicable fees. fees, lien fees, or any other fees that may be imposed by a governmental agency in connection with the sale and The car in question wears a Norm Reeves Honda license plate. One A/C (warranty) fail on the Hatch. Jon has mastered the art of patience and communication whilst making us feel very welcomed and comfortable because we had the best adviser. The Civic's base engine isn't particularly potent, but it does an adequate job of hauling the car around. Don't you think that if Honda could have programmed the 1.5t with CVT to deliver 274hp reliably, they would have done that? 206K views 4 years ago Customer brought in his 2017 Honda Civic Sport Hatch 1.5L Turbo in for custom tuning on 93 octane using Hondata FlashPro and custom tuning software. However, the 1.5T leaves a lot of room on the table . a video consultation. This car is likely to sell soon based on the price, features, and condition. Modern car manufacturers use both Watt's definition, and a similar quantity known as metric horsepower. I cant say enough about George. The Service Department worked long and hard to resolve the issue with my car and ultimately diagnosed the problem. --, "The Honda Civic has long been one of the better-driving cars in its class, and this tradition continues with precise, well-weighted steering and composed handling. Tom Kelley from the used car dealership was phenomenal to work with. The tunes do add decent power but there is almost no margin in the CVT. Watt's estimates were fairly accurate: one horsepower is roughly the average rate of work a healthy draught horse can do over a full day, confirmed by data from the 1925 Iowa State Fair and by English veterinary surgeon William Youatt. Many of us aren't dragging these cars at the track, its just enhanced fun on a daily driver. Gave me straightforward honest info with zero pressure. My future and comfort mattered to them. It wasn't designed to handle the hypothetical 274hp that you think that your performance upgrades are going to possibly give you. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. If you're looking for more power, consider the . He was patient and answered all of my questions immediately. We have two 2020 Civics, one is a Hatchback Sport, the other is a Coupe EX, both with the 1.5t/CVT. Tim Dienlien was extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I am so impressed with the honesty of this dealership. --, " [The Si] drives brilliantly, a wholesale improvement from before. Zero issues on the Coupe. Thank you Roman!! Your driving style will dictate what gear goes first. No lift shifts keep the turbo spooled between gear changes, for lag-free, faster shifts. By stating that an engine could outwork a horse by multitudes, people had a way of comparing the novel machine to their existing equine laborer and be incentivized to actually buy it. I love my car! I am a customer for life now!! Staff is friendly and helpful. Looking at the massive gains below 3,000RPM, Id bet that a stock car on 91 octane would close the gap a little bit. There was an issue with car after I left and she quickly addressed the issue for us. A big part of the magic is the all-new 1.5L turbocharged four-cylinder engine that powers it. Sara is the online staff writer at BBC Science Focus. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It takes exactly 112.45 psi of boost (give or take 0.002%) to blow the engine, but really blowing the engine is not the immediate concern. JavaScript is disabled. A manual-transmission 1.5-liter Civic can put out about 225 horsepower and 254 pound-feet of torque, a far cry from the 174 horsepower and 167 pound-feet of a base Civic. The GPS is not already works properly at 45 mph and more. After all, if a machine could do the work of several horses, why not? Other problems include limits on how much horsepower a CVT can handle, as well as greater . I Just want to give a huge shout out to The service center! Also, forget the mustang or a used 2.0, I'd look for a used '17 6-6 coupe, Bottom line is that the base transmission was not designed to handle the power of the 2.0, and a tranny replacement out of warranty, paired with these modifications, is going to cost more than the cost of trading in the current car for a 2.0t. So one horse should have one horsepower, right? This engine is configured with a 4-speed automatic transmission driving the rear wheels. Combined mileage, 68,000 mi. As usual, it is all or nothing with opinion. any advice is uber helpful thanks. But they did try to help. Trained athletes can manage up to approximately 2.5 horsepower for a short period and 0.35 . As for figuring out what your safe upper hp level is you can use this formula that has been around forever for Honda engines. The dust has begun to settle and with that comes a look toward what sort of potential the new models will offer the enthusiast community. Metric horsepower is defined as the power required to raise a 75-kilogram mass against gravity over a . To find out why the 2023 Honda Civic is rated 6.6 and ranked #10 in Compact Cars, read The Car Connection expert . The Intake advertises 6-8 horsepower gained, and the Ktuner advertises around 25 horsepower gained. --, "The 1.5-liter turbo engine and CVT are a winning team, making this Civic feel legitimately quick. However, this was NOT my experience with Ourisman Honda of Laurel!! If thats the case then should I be super worried about destroying the transmission with such a low number or horsepower added Or should I just be more careful and concerned about it? So far I've seen 250hp without the transmission slipping. Research, compare, and save listings, or contact sellers directly from 28 2021 Civic models in Fairfax Station, VA. Right from the . Naturally. His improved design for a steam engine was much more efficient than previous designs, requiring much less fuel. It depends on how much work the horse can do in a given period of time. Some models come with a turbocharged 1.5-liter four-cylinder that makes either 174 or 180 horsepower, depending on the trim. techniques ; Prix $99,999; Puissance 999 hp @ 9999 rpm; Cylindre 9.9 L/99; Consommation d'essence Ville: 99 mpg . But, extra features. Both cars still feel pretty light and handle reasonably well for the class. 2000 Accord LX - Sold | 2012 Civic Si - Sold | 2019 Lunar Silver Accord Sport 2.0 A/T. There are many modders with burnt up CVTs on the civicx forums. He is in the military And needs something he can afford. Si has a sport suspension and 17-inch tires that cause a stiffer ride, but it's never jarring." These estimates do not include tax, title, registration Our pricing beats the national average 86% of the time with shoppers receiving average savings of $1,824 off MSRP across vehicles. driveaccord.net is an independent Honda enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. or "Well, these companies are all liars, but i still love my car", They most certainly would have, and they'd have saved a ton of money by simplifying their manufacturing line. So i drove back to sign the form and once signed Kirk had one of their employees take my truck to a gas station and topped it off. Running premium, the Sport and Sport Touring with the continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT) make a claimed 180 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 162 lb-ft of torque from 1700 to 5500 rpm. We went to many dealerships looking to buy our new car and were frustrated by the pressure sales tactics and manipulated pricing. The employee had great communication skills, in which I thought was great. One A/C (warranty) fail on the Hatch. Well, there are a lot of variables and we will dive into a few of them soon. This car is likely to sell soon based on the price, features, and condition. It felt like it wasnt just my business that mattered but that me as a person with a life outside of that dealership, I mattered to them. We value your privacy. Honda civic 2022 usag d'occasion, Ext: Blanc, int: , Sedan Ex Cvt$33,980. Everyone is great but I highly recommend Justin Goodreau hes extremely knowledgeable, and hes always going the extra mile to make you have great experience! Thank you Tim and Heritage, Owings Mills, for making my experience unique. However, its base engine is a bit wheezy. This vehicle has an. Going to VIR soon, brake pad, prop valve questions, **OFFICIAL FORCED INDUCTION RANDOM CHAT THREAD**, Chance EG Build Thread - Restomod With Arashi Turbo, Tucked AC, Etc, K24a2 turbo swap breaks up bad under load, 2003 and 2006 Japanese Crv instrument cluster wiring required, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The base 2015 Civic gets up to an EPA-estimated 30/39 mpg city/highway, which is good for the class. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/engiock-fuel-rail-injectors-z3-throttle-body.html. Each engine has enough power for passing cars on the highway and going up steep hills. And he recommended Perry to me - He was very impressed as well with their new BUICK. Metric horsepower is defined as the power required to raise a 75-kilogram mass against gravity over a distance of one metre in one second. Mine rarely sees above 7-8 psi, and I don't even accelerate moderately until everything is warmed up (165 degrees). If my credit was on point I would've been driving my dream car. 2 Great Deals out of 23 listings starting at $16,996, 4 Great Deals out of 22 listings starting at $21,645, 4 Great Deals out of 23 listings starting at $21,500, 5 Great Deals out of 23 listings starting at $21,500, 7 Great Deals out of 38 listings starting at $21,450, 4 Great Deals out of 22 listings starting at $21,500, 5 Great Deals out of 23 listings starting at $21,645, 7 Great Deals out of 39 listings starting at $21,450, 5 Great Deals out of 32 listings starting at $21,645, 1 Great Deal out of 13 listings starting at $22,991, 1 Great Deal out of 11 listings starting at $15,500. This was my best ever car buying experience. Civic HF models get even better fuel economy, with 31/41 mpg city/highway. Im guessing that Hondatas solution cuts spark when the ECU sees the clutch pedal sensor/switch activated, and the car at 100% throttle. Dawit Hagos was professional and knowledgable about all of the details of the car, and we were able to get our car with the exact specifications that we wanted with full price transparency every step of the way. Then the Civic's solid road manners and excellent fuel economy are just what the doctor ordered. The LCD cluster can toggle through various functions, but its main focus surrounds the Honda Sensing system. Looking at data from the 1925 Iowa State Fair, they found a much lower real-world value. Salesmans know the vehicles and are great at answering questions. More than 280,000 car shoppers have purchased or leased a car through the U.S. News Best Price Program. On the Hatch, 31MPG with 90% city (SoCal). It was in and out and I was able to go about my day. That is hilarious. I was looking for an aegean blue civic coupe and the closest dealer was Anderson Honda, which is 225 miles away. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. He didnt have me waiting there for hours on in. Through bends, the body is controlled with a little roll. Braly Del Rosario (we dealt with both guys during my used car search) were AWESOME! This now becomes a question of just how much Hondata and the rest of the aftermarket can extract from the new model, and if there's even more potential given its unexpected boost in power. Thats one horsepower. if you are looking for a new/used Honda and want the best treatment, see the Bennett team, Thank You for making it so wonderful. According to Science Focus, the concept of horsepower was developed in the 1700s by engineer James Watt (the eponym of the unit of power) and intended to entice people used to the workload of horses to switch to Watt's newly improved steam engine. Combined mileage, 68,000 mi. The process of buying a car was extremely easy, they had it all very orderly. Thank you! Come Join the club! How your tuner ramped the torque in (down low or does he have it coming on like a light switch at 3000 rpm?) Consent is not required to purchase goods/services. Horsepower is a familiar measurement to anyone with an interest in cars. Flat foot shifting is pretty brutal on the clutch, after all. Sergio was amazing! The Civic Si coupe and sedan start at about $24,000, with their sole option being a $200 set of "summer" performance tires (a fantastic value) and a wheel upgrade. Honda Certified Used Vehicles - (Stock:4UBNA14230) VHICULES D'OCCASION CERTIFIS HONDA. NEW HONDA VEHICLES . He was very responsive to my wife and I and made the entire car buying experience so easy. Hondata makes a great product, that compliments Hondas excellent engineering. I bought a new RAV4 through Jerry Potts at Laurel, MD new Toyota lot. He is very knowledgeable and was also able to get us a special rebate we were eligible for. The regular 2.0 CVT is not as performance oriented as the 1.5t comes with a more durable and robust transmission to handle the additional torque of the turbo. Innovators in the Honda tuning space since 1999, Hondata is quick to take on new car challenges in order to offer its massive fan base various tuning solutions to realize more power and torque, and improve their driving experience. My one let down: No CD player. As a daily driver, you say the 1.5 can't handle a tune and exhaust, I say you need to read more (lot of data that says CVT is fine on a normal Ktuner or Hondata tune). 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. There was not a single time I felt pressured or discouraged. He was polite, very helpful and just a fun person to work with. --, turbocharged 1.5-liter four-cylinder with 180 horsepower and 177 pound-feet of torque (EX, EX-L, Touring and Sport Touring), turbocharged 1.5-liter four-cylinder with 200 horsepower and 192 pound-feet of torque (Si), turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder with 315 horsepower and 310 pound-feet of torque (Type R), "We tested a Civic Touring sedan, which has the turbocharged engine. I had no idea it had dropped. He calculated that, over an average day's work, a horse could turn a 24ft mill wheel around 2.5 times per minute. I will definitely be back for my next car!! It feels a little lazy off the line, but power grows steadily and quickly so you never feel the need to floor it like you would with the base 2.0-liter engine. our tools to get details such as qualifying cars, test drive options, Technical Specs ; Price $99,999; Power 999 hp @ 9999 rpm; Displacement 9.9 L/99; Fuel Consumption City: 99 mpg Highway: 99 mpg; Drive train 999 kph; COMPLETE PRE . For cars, this can mean being able to accelerate faster, though not necessarily from a dead stop. PLUS a free mini-magazine for you to download and keep. The service was good and fast. The Civic EX hands down. Im sure that he will!! But wanted to highlight our experience with working with Jonathan Solovey! Modern car manufacturers use both Watt's definition, and a similar quantity known as metric horsepower. our tools to get details such as qualifying cars, test drive options, But what precisely is horsepower, and where did it come from? I feel I got a great deal on a used car and will be back should I be in the market again as well as recommend him to anyone that askes. Honda lists the stock output at 180 hp and 177 lb-ft. That means the Hondata-tuned Civic makes 20 more hp and 62 lb-ft. of torque more than the new Si, which uses a tuned version of the base car . The CVT-equipped Civic sees a 6PSI uptick in boost, with small gains around 20 horsepower and 30 lb-ft of torque. Awesome experience. The CVT operates nicely, and it simulates smooth and snappy gear changes. Get email alerts on this search. Overall great experience! The whole personnel was very welcoming and polite. I never spin the tires on mine, everything I did was for during driving get up and go, and sound. An expert looked at the truck when i brought it home, this was my neighbor who is a professional body shop guy who was shocked at the cleanliness of the truck. TY Piazza Honda AND Nancy! Read many reviews prior to purchase. home delivery on some or all of its cars. They were very transparent. They write that the Civics CVT is one of the best on the market, noting that it operates smoothly and makes great use of the engines available power. Both he and Im looking to upgrade to a W1 turbocharger on my CivicX and I want to know if it's okay to run it on a stock engine. We have seen some engines let go before reaching that power level and we have seen very few of them surpass that threshold. Because it has too much power/torque. It's solid performance for such a small engine. Certified cars are manufacturer warrantied and typically Add a splash of Ethanol, just a few gallons, and well really have a party. That is good for an extra 35WHP* on the top end, and crucially, over 60 lb-ft of torque* increase in the mid-range, from about 3,000RPM to about 5,000RPM. Cars.com Privacy Statement. I have the 2liter engine with 6 speed trans and it performs very well. Bought the car right off the showroom floor! While some reviewers say the base Civic could use a little more power, others report that its strong enough for driving around town and accelerating to freeway speeds. This will result in increased acceleration, handling and torque capabilities on your car. Touring Sedan CVT. Air filters and exhausts can clog up, blocking airflow to and from the engine; fuel injectors and spark plugs can get mucky, causing less efficient firing; and fuel pumps can wear out and no longer pump fuel so well. . Using this, he then calculated how much energy it applied, and therefore the power. specially HONDA put HPD Body kit on 2014 coupe 1.8..right? 10/10 ; would recommend. 158.0-hp, 2.0-liter, 4 Cylinder Engine (Gasoline Fuel), 2020 Honda Civic sedans for sale in Flying Hills, PA, 174.0-hp, 1.5-liter, 4 Cylinder Engine (Gasoline Fuel), 180.0-hp, 1.5-liter, 4 Cylinder Engine (Gasoline Fuel). Are you changing your oil in a timely manner? I would highly recommend asking for Shar if you are looking for a new vehicle at Koons Ford. Thank you so much!! Use our tools to contact the dealership to schedule The higher the number, the more likely a car will smoke a Tesla in a race. Sometimes. Share Save. Marissa was an excellent sales rep to work with! Shop 2020 Honda Civic vehicles in Edgemere, MD for sale at Cars.com. Perry is helping me with this search. Honda equips '14 Civic redo with CVT. Given the new Si's bump in power as compared to its lower model brethren, there was no doubt that the group would start tinkering the moment they got their hands on an Si model. On the Hatch, 31MPG with 90% city (SoCal). I reached out to Tim and they covered all of it. I see do you think my add ons Will push it too far even if they wont add much horsepower? They worked with us to get us the monthly payments that we wanted, they made extra phone calls for us. How Much Horsepower Can A Honda B16 Handle? Get all the guts you would need for a more robust bottom end. Disc CD player is absent. So, he developed the horsepower as a way to demonstrate to customers who hadn't yet switched from horses to steam engines that it was a good investment. Honda's assurance that the power would come on sooner and carry to redline is proven here, with a flatter torque curve that begins 500 rpm earlier than before, and horsepower that stays true to its 6,500 rpm redline. went to norris ford and got my new truck .the sales team there was great.Kyle Oconnor was there all the way and the team got it done for me fast and i got what i wanted. *Estimated payments are for informational purposes only. He even sent me a video of the vehicle I was interested in before I came in. According to most reviewers, the 2015 Honda Civic has adequate power and is available with one of the better continuously variable transmissions on the market. The available 1.5-liter engine is a big upgrade. okay so youre saying that I over estimated the performance of these parts, and that theyll give me a good 25hp all together along with supposedly 40hp give or take from ktuner stage 1. estimated the maximum power output a horse can muster. Here are Hondatas very grainy, quite small dyno plots that they have provided: Heres the fun fact, the big dyno numbers that get flashed on the screen showing these massive gains has the aforementioned asterisk. We value your privacy. Likely over estimated, and yes, the K-tuner alone is POTENTIALLY (but not guaranteed) enough to cause problems, at least with the manual (which im aware you do not have). Honda Civic Turbo 1.5 VTEC CVT . ^ Yeah, 250hp is the generally accepted limit with a turbo kit before needing to start doing more in depth engine and transmission work. Good maintenance and good driving habits go a long way toward the longevity of your engine and transmission. Show all photos (2) New. The 1.5L inline-4 engine delivers up to 205 horsepower and 192 lb-ft in the Honda Civic Si. It should be noted that yours truly has done no-lift shifts in the stock Civic Turbo, and it works just fine, dropping elapsed times at the drag strip. Cars.com Privacy Statement. In a video released by Hondata, company owner Doug MacMillan explains the featured manual Civic Hatchback received a tune that increases turbo boost by 9 psi, increasing peak horsepower by 35. The finance office was the part I was most scared of. Touring Sedan CVT. sounds sketchy to me too but Ill see how it goes once I get it what are your thoughts on those mods though? Honda did it again. A day later i received a phone call from a manager who said they forgot 1 piece of paper that i NEEDED to sign. Not a big impact on my breaks I suppose the car just accelerated faster obviously cuz of the tune but thats the only thing I noticed that Im not a fan of pretty normal though if u ask me. You can get more information about this car from your couch through They were very helpful and was willing to negotiate pricing to what I could afford. If you have a Honda Civic K-series block, you can install Darton MID's to increase the horsepower potential to up to 600 HP. They tend to your needs and help you find the car you are looking for. I've had prolly 10 civics in my lifetime and this is the best one yet. Five Stars all the way!!! a video consultation. It feels considerably lighter on its feet than a new Accord, which always struck me as a bit piggish and heavy. why did richard jaeckel leave spenser: for hire,
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